Is Apple TV the Stupidest Apple Product Ever?
Mum said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." However, Hadley says "500 words per week please." So I'll say, you're never going to hear the expression "Apple TV killer", because everything already kills it.
Apple loves to be pig-headed about things. For example, a multi-button mouse only took 20 years, and we're still waiting for a decent camera on the iPhone. We all know it's the Apple-way or the highway. Well this week, I took the highway.
I was in the market for a PVR. Naturally I decided to check out the AppleTV to see what it is - and isn't.
What it is: A vacuum cleaner for your wallet. 
What it isn't: A PVR, nor is it even a challenge to PVRs.
Now I know you all knew that, but it bears mentioning again because spending so much money on a one function device that is superceded by PVRs anyway, seems a tad insane.
The Apple TV is a means to play downloaded movies and TV shows. That's all. No DVD player, no hard disk recorder, no TV tuner. It's just a media player. Kinda like a big iPod really.
Who really needs that? Hands up all those people who don't want to play DVDs and don't want to record TV. Hmm, no hands.
Some will argue the Apple TV shouldn't be compared to PVRs as they serve different functions. True enough from the Apple TV's perspective, but not from the PVR's. Apple TV won't be making any sort of blip in PVR sales, but PVRs will certainly be limiting Apple TV's sales
With the Olympics on, now is an apt time to consider Apple TV versus PVR. Has Apple provided any Olympic coverage? Has it provided the coverage you wanted to see? Nope. So you still need to fork out for a VR - which then makes yourAppleTV redundant.
Many programs each week are not available on iTMS. Sport, news, documentaries, dramas, comedies, soaps, current affairs. In fact, a lot of everything. It'd be lucky if 2% of what's on telly each week is available on iTMS.
Now look at this from the Apple TV's blurb:
Get TV shows you love — without countless channels you don’t need. Buy commercial-free TV episodes directly from Apple TV and watch what you want, when you want. Browse hundreds of shows, then click once to buy episodes for just $1.99 each.
Apple, that blurb convinced me more than anything not to buy an Apple TV. It's asking me to buying an expensive piece of hardware to then pay for TV shows I currently get for free. All for the advantage for receiving them without commericals and not having to worry about setting up my PVR to record. Whoopity doo.
Also, I have a Mac, it can download the same programs as the Apple TV, which I can then watch on my Mac or TV. So again, why do I ned an Apple TV?
But again I still will need a PVR to record all the programs Apple can't supply.
So I'm really struggling here to see who would by an Apple TV? People who can't be bothered pressing record? Or can't be bothered pressing fast forward during the commercials?
Movies are a better use, but again I don't need the Apple TV to access them, I can still download them through my Mac.
Oh, and for the price of the Apple TV with160GB, you can buy a very good PVR - such as a Sony or Panasonic - with greater capacity. As it is, I purchased a PVR with 160GB for half the price of the 160GB Apple TV. And it plays and records DVDs.
The cost of movies and TV shows is not an advantage either, with them being the same or dearer (more expensive) through iTMS.
One other possible argument for the Apple TV is it is the future. A future where we will download all our movies and TV shows. But with such a limited selection, especially of TV viewing, and exisiting systems so entrenched, the Apple TV is just too far ahead of the game.
In fact, the Apple TV is so far ahead of the game that it's out of the game. The DVD is here for a long time yet, watching TV over the TV networks is here for a long time yet. The limited convenience of the Apple TV is not justifiable.
I look forward to the Apple zealots trying to justify the Apple TV, and when they can't find any justification, resorting to calling this the stupidest article ever. Because they've got as much hope of justifying the Apple TV as they have of explaining what's outside the universe.
The Apple TV is a waste of money. It's plain stupid. Sorry, Mum.
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Slashdot
StumbleUpon
Comments
I agree with many of the other posters that the AppleTV is a new class of product and I love the functionality it provides me. Think different!
Chris should have written a review of PVR’s and why an Apple PVR would be so superior to all them. Clearly it’s not a buiness that Mr. Jobs is interested in and I don’t really blame him.
E
Hey Chris - that Sony or Panasonic PVR with greater capacity at half the price… to be a fair comparison they’d have to be high definition - are they?
Overall, if it wasn’t for high def, I’d agree with much of what you’re saying.
I mean - it is expensive compared with standard def players. In fact, I think Apple should have released a Standard-Def AppleTV for $100… it would have hit a different audience. Instead they paid a premium for high def h264 decoding and made it only work with widescreens… cutting off a huge number of potential customers AND more than doubling the price.
Now that h264 decoding is being built into so many BluRay players etc I hope it’s time for h264 to become mainstream anyway.
ps. I also really like PVRs so I would be pleased to see the AppleTV take on that functionality.
pps. If you really want a pet dog, don’t buy a pet cat. Even if they do lots of similar things.
Greg, that Sony/Panasonic line was at the same price. However, I think they were SD, so that is an advantage of the Apple TV.
At least with a dog and a cat there’s enough similarities that you have to think about it, and which ever way you go most of your needs will be satisfied.
I think the Apple TV and PVR shouldn’t be like the dog/cat. Instead it’s more like a cow and a cat. They’re too different, which I think is a big mistake by Apple. Apple will never capture the living room with the Apple TV.
Nah - for some people cats and dogs are similar… but if you really want to play in the park with your dog, a cat will fall short in every way.
That’s how I interpreted your article to a large degree. But, I do really hope we see an AppleDVR soon, I think Apple could make something amazing (far better than the current AppleTV) - and it allows them to stay with the “present” while encouraging the future.
For example:
An AppleDVR, with a good TV guide, could record any show NBC has on FTA TV. People could skip ads (or fast forward) and watch it as they please… without NBC and Apple having to cut a deal.
... However… if NBC cut a deal with Apple then they could customise the NBC experience with many possibilities. They could charge a 50c rental fee to automatically skip the ads. Or customise the ads to the viewer and show 2 ads (per ad break). They could allow ANY episode of lost to be downloaded for free and watched with custom ads (or for 50c). They might “repair” a broken recording if something went wrong or if the beginning or end was missed somehow.
No partnership with NBC results in us seeing things the old way, but with the PVR advantage. An agreement could launch NBC programs into the next generation of interactivity for both advertisers and viewers.
Other than that.. a basic PVR plus movie rentals can replace payTV for many people. That’s got to be a good thing with the rates Foxtel charge here!
“BTW If you don’t want to hear Apple being criticized, try somewhere that only gives you Apple’s view - there’s plenty of Apple websites that toe the line. But at Apple Matters, we are allowed to tell it like we see it “
Oh please. Nice straw man. I’m completely ok with apple criticism. I have a ton of complaints about apple. As long as the complaint is backed by quality writing and adequate knowledge, neither of which you provided.
You can call anyone that defends the apple tv as zealots, and claim that anyone that doesn’t agree with you simply can’t take criticism of apple, but those are baseless arguments that amount to nothing; much like your article.
Let me try to stay objective. You are an idiot!......oops that just slipped out.
Ok, PVR/DVR’s not delivered by your TV provider are stupid and over priced and only an idiot would purchase one. I say this after being a DirectTivo Subscriber for 6 years (recently converted to DirectTV HD DVR). There is one simple reason:
The provider can capture the feed digitally, pre-compressed with no quality loss.
Regardless of how good your hardware is, re-compressing heavily compressed data comes at a substantial loss or the need for much larger files to try to hide it. It is for this reason that even though TiVo has the best DVR interface on earth they are going to fail.
So why would Apple try to enter a market where the dominate player is loosing money and going to fail. Especially when that player is doing everything right!
So now that I’ve made it clear that I think stand alone DVR’s are stupid, lets get into your specifics and my usage.
1.“It’s asking me to buying an expensive piece of hardware to then pay for TV shows I currently get for free.”
Ok, FREE? Really! Even if you are one of the small number of people who get their TV over the Air and thus (for free). You still pay for those shows by watching Ad’s. And to the best of my knowledge most of the DVR’s come with a monthly service cost of about $13/month (stand alone) or $5/month from your provider. And this allows you to legally time shift video (not own it).
In contrast, shows purchased on AppleTV are owned by you, commercial free. Better yet, they are able to be distributed to up to 5 different computers (even in other households) and an unlimited number of iPods, iPhones, and AppleTV’s.
2. Well… it’s either over-priced or under-featured, so that seems a stupid thing for Apple to do.
This is actually sort of two points. Over Priced? Well, it has been about 6-8 month since the last rev so you might be correct that it is time for another price cut or storage/feature upgrade, but I’ll give it another couple months. Regardless of that, for $200 you get an HD video player, with 802.11n and 10/100 networking and a 40GB hard drive….Who is selling an equivalent product for less? Under-featured, I already told you that the PVR feature you mentioned is stupid unless it comes from your TV provider and outside of that you have access to anything that you can put in iTunes (Music, Podcasts, TV, movies (rent, own, HD and SD). Streaming photos (both network and internet) As well as YouTube video support all without hacking the unit. All of this with no commercials and NO MONTHLY FEE!
You go on to say that the AppleTV doesn’t not have 2% of what’s on the TV. And that may be true but TV doesn’t have 2% of what’s on AppleTV. You totally discount the hundreds of hours of content that is being created each day with video and audio podcasts and ignore that thousands of hours of content being put onto YouTube. Sure, it is not what’s on the TV normally but it is what could be on the TV if you had and AppleTV.
Now I will give you a concession. Because Apple is still playing hardball with NBC there are large gaps in Apple’s “prime time” lineup. And until they fix that, it will not be a total replacement for my DirectTV subscription. Also, sports will likely never be great on AppleTV (till we get streaming podcasts of them) although they are one of the worst things to time shift as well.
So here is a solution for your needs!
1) Drop to lifeline cable or continue to get offair. This will give you all the prime time shows, sports and news. Purchase an EyeTV for your mac to time shift those programs if you want to and use AppleTV to deliver them to your TV. Now, with the monthly savings, purchase some of your programing via AppleTV to get the best of both worlds. Over time you will build up a library of re-runs (98% of what’s on TV)
Personally, regularly seeing all of my photos on my 55” TV is justification for the cost of the unit. Purchasing Movies that I would have purchased on DVD is much more enjoyable and I get much more use of them. Owning the TV Series I really like is also something I have done in the past, the difference now is that I watch them new 1 day later, without commercials and have them forever. I enjoy a number of HD video podcasts (free) as well as the occasional YouTube.
So, break down your setup and tell me why mine wouldn’t be better for you…..
Doug,thanks for that reply. You highlight something we’ve all overlooked, so we’ve all failed I guess to have “adequate knowledge” to either write or respond.
And that is that I, in Australia, am in a very different marketplace to those in the US where most of the defenders of the Apple TV come from.
Free to air TV is the norm here. Just doing a quick bit of research, it’s likely the uptake of PayTV in Australia is about 20 to 40%, depending on whether capitals or rural.
In Australia there’s no cost of using a PVR, you buy it and that’s it. However Tivo is coming, or just arrived, which does have a subscription model.
So consequently we can, for no cost, record anything from free-to-air TV, such as the Olympics, and put and play them on any device we like.
For that we get ads that we have to skip. No biggie. And ads don’t cost anything to watch, btw. It only costs if you respond to them.
I gather all that’s quite different to the US situation, so it sounds like the Apple TV makes more sense there.
Regards the setup you suggest, it is more inconvenient than dropping a PVR onto my shelf and pressing record. Everyone in the family can use it for all the functionality and it doesn’t impact on the use of my Mac.
teamryan, I’m sorry you don’t understand blogs. Or opinion pieces.
A blog piece is a dynamic living thing. It doesn’t end at the writer’s final words, it begins.
If the writer wrote the quality and knowledge you demand, there’d be no room for dialogue. The piece would be dead. You might get a few comments like “Well, said.”
But look at what we’ve achieved with this one article.
In my previous life at AM I tried to write those conclusive and closed articles. But they take a lot longer than can be justified, they don’t generate any discussion, and overall are just plain stressful.
Sometimes a blog should be just like a conversation with your mates. One says something a bit out there, like “Apple TV is stupid”, and then a big debate unsues.
We’re are not journalists, we are not professionally trained. We are bloggers, we are here to engage and discuss. What you want is in newspapers and the upper echelon of blogs.
Everyone who writes for and has ever written for AM is just like you, just the man or woman in the street talking about their honest experiences of Apple. AM doesn’t check to see that you have qualifications in writing, or that you are a guru in your field. Yes a degree of intelligence is expected, and an ability to write reasonably.
Until Doug’s response I was still adamant that Apple had missed the boat with the Apple TV. Like you failing to research the market I was coming from, I also didn’t feel it is necessary to spend dozens of hours researching every possibility just to write an opinion piece for a blog.
Now, of course, I am writing into a largely US market and as such, yes, I did make a mistake by not having adequate knowledge of the situation with TV there.
So is the Apple TV stupid? In the US, probably not. In Australia, I’d still say yes, though Greg might still debate that.
Fair Enough.
If you only have a single computer in the house, I can see your point because adding one more task to an already heavily used device can be inconvenient. But many homes have multiple computers so having one of the older ones do double duty is very reasonable for many. And don’t play up the difficulty, the EyeTV is a set it and forget it device much like a PVR is.
Your explanation of your situation brings up some questions though and maybe you need to educate us on how advanced your PVR’s are and how much over the air programing you actually get. Here, having access to more the 8 channels over the air is very unusual. So your 2% claim doesn’t make much sense (unless much more than NBC is not on AppleTV in your area).
So maybe you can answer some questions for those of us who don’t know about your PVR’s.
1. Are the capable of delivering HD movies?
2. Do they network with your computer (wired or wireless).
3. If yes to 2 do they allow for easy streaming of personal media (photos, music, video)
4. Also if yes to 2 do they allow for streaming photos over the web (flickr, .mac etc)
5. Do they allow for access to YouTube
6. Do they give access to rent/purchase Movies, TV, Music Videos, Music and shorts?
7. Do they allow you access to Video and Audio Podcasts.
8. Do they have anything like the air tunes ability to stream audio from your computer.
These are the features that make AppleTV great! and they are reasons why if I were you, when your DVD player breaks down I would look into purchasing an AppleTV to replace it because for only a little more than a good up converting DVD player (and much less than a blu-ray player) you can have so much more with an AppleTV.
So even if a EyeTV solution to your PVR problem is not a good one, hopefully you can see why and AppleTV would be a great compliment to your existing home theater.
i.e. NO!!!!!!! AppleTV is not one of the stupidest products Apple has ever made!
heheh, now I know where I went wrong, Doug. You guys in the US obviously have a lot more than 24 hours in each day! We only get 24 down here in Oz. I know it’s not much but we make do the best we can.
We do have a thing in summer though called daylight saving that somehow or other gives us 25 hours a day, but then we only have 23 hour days in winter - which is when we’d be wanting to watch TV more, so that doesn’t make sense. We should have the 25 hours days in winter.
Now, being serious…
All those things you can do with the Apple TV sound okay, but how often do you have the time to do any of them? How often do you stream photos to your TV? Or watch YouTube or vodcasts or listen to podcasts thru your Apple TV? How often do you do these things? Or is it just the convenience of knowing you can if you want?
I don’t know, but our lives are pretty busy, between working, studying and four kids.
Most of the justifications on your list I ask why?? Why do I want to watch YouTube so much that I need to watch it on TV (and then where do I get the time? and also, aren’t YouTube vids going to be very pixelated on a large screen TV?), why do I want to watch Flickr etc on TV? (And even if I do, how often do I really want to do it?) etc etc.
#6 is a nice convenience if the what you want is available and if you are after something specific. Most of the time we rent movies we have no idea before we enter the store what we want to watch.
And I must say, I don’t find browsing the iTMS movies nearly as easy as browsing a video store. It’s like the difference between reading a hard copy book or reading it on the computer. The browsing interface for iTMS needs improving. For example, I went to the genre comedy. 9 pages of 28 per page but no option to show more per page or to change the thumbnail size. No coverflow which is a bit better way of browsing. Does Apple TV improve on that?
At the end of the day, it’s obvious Apple TV owners have specific needs that most of the population don’t seem to have (otherwise these things would be flying off the shelves).
If those things on your list make the Apple TV so great, why isn’t it shaking up the living room? Why isn’t it making headlines like the iPhone has?
Because it only appeals to a niche. Granted, you could say smartphones were a niche to before the iPhone. But the Apple TV has barely made a ripple in the living room. What is the uptake of the Apple TV among non-Mac owners? Compare that to the uptake of the iPhone among non-Mac owners.
I still argue that Apple has missed a great opportunity with the Apple TV.
Hey Doug,
Interesting idea - since TiVo isn’t doing well, why would Apple be able to make it work. Very good question. And you’re right that the provider is supplying their own boxes which makes it harder for TiVo to provide a competitive system (but the TiVo doesn’t re-compress the data it records, that’s not an issue, not sure why you think it does).
I think Apple (and TiVo) could only make a PVR work in combination with other products - or if they can entirely replace the cable subscription. To replace cable you’d have to be able to record FTA and subscribe to downloads from popular cable channels (like discovery etc), as well as rent movies - though this leaves sports-lovers behind. There’s no reason that Showtime couldn’t charge the same monthly subscription as now but offer it via download (just this week’s movies downloadable to the AppleTV, expiring in 1 month).
If Apple tried that, expect the big cable providers like Time Warner to start offering content that is exclusive to their own networks, to fight subscription loss. The battle simply changes where it focuses.
So coming back to “is the current AppleTV a good product”, I still think it is, but whether you buy it depends on your needs. My parents had a new HDTV and wanted HD movies, and bought the AppleTV as a cheaper alternative to a BluRay or HD-DVD player (though it turns out they mainly like it for the photos shown as a screen saver). I have a laptop I plug into the TV and that does much more than the AppleTV (except HD), and I have a standard def DVR (HD DVRs record HDTV but are much more expensive.. a TiVo can rent HD movies from Amazon afaik).
The AppleTV has more than one issue, and they have missed a few opportunities. The HD comes at a cost, and the bandwidth is only just capable, while rental content has been too limited. Apple could have made a SD version, and allowed DivX files plus a DVR - that’s what other manufacturers would have done. It would have been more complex and less good looking and may have meant the networks didn’t release their TV shows on iTunes…. so many trade-offs to move to the future.
Wow Chris I disagree with virtually everything you said, where do I start.
First “how often do you have the time to do any of them? How often do you stream photos to your TV? “
Daily! When someone is not actively watching TV this is what I put it on. So if I’m picking up around the house, playing with the kids, eating lunch whatever. I’m also seeing photos ether top rated photos or photos of the last 3-6 months. It is awesome!
Second: “YouTube or vodcasts”
There are a number of video podcasts I subscribe to on AppleTV so I’d say an average of 20 minutes a day. Some of the stuff from NASA, National Geographic, as well as some great independent stuff. (audio I mostly do in the car with my iphone).
Third: “Why”
Because it is a better viewing experience, even YouTube (which varies greatly in quality). As for flickr/.mac I have friends and family who I can keep up with what they are doing via their recent photos just by switching to their feed over the net.
Fourth: “Browsing content”
There are no pages on AppleTV. When you go to a genre you see all the covers of all the movies. It is a very nice experience. And I can search as well as look at related items. In all likely hood, I could be half way through a movie by the time you could get the kids together, go to the store and get back home.
Fifth: “At the end of the day, it’s obvious Apple TV owners have specific needs that most of the population don’t seem to have (otherwise these things would be flying off the shelves).”
Ok, I’m guessing you wrote that when you were tired or something. PVR’s have been around for almost a decade, and I’ve had one for about 7 years. I spent the last 6 trying to convince my father how much better watching TV with a PVR was and he said the same sort of thing you are. “I don’t see a need” “I don’t watch that much TV”. But a month after finally getting one he would never watch TV without it. AppleTV has been around for about 18Months and it is hard to explain to people how nice it is. Isn’t it more reasonable to assume that you don’t get how nice it is than that every owner of the product is some freak niche user?
Internet delivered TV is happening. Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Amazon and now it sounds like Dell and Netflix are all pushing hard to be the one to own a part of it. So I’m guessing that this is an emerging market, not a niche. IMHO.
Ok Greg, again I think we are talking about a difference of technologies. Here in the US we are aproching 90% of homes get TV from cable or satellite and these singles are proprietary (regardless of what cable card was supposed to do). This means that TiVo must take the feed as an analog feed and encode it to store it. I am aware that over the air TV is different and might work in other parts of the world.
If apple could combine AppleTV into existing set top boxes, that might be interesting, but it is not ultimately what Apple wants. They would rather become the cable provider and with NBC online it would be possible (for me at least).
For me the HD works great! My normal delay from purchase to watch is less than a minute (4-5Mb/sec cable connection). Rental content is increasing quickly and daily and I see no benefit to making a SD only version nor do I see a need to support DivX as H.264 is every bit as good.
So from my point of view, with the exception of maybe being able to decode and capture over the air digital TV It seems to me that Apple TV is exactly what it needed to be and if they release an SDK for it like the iPhone things could get even more interesting. IMHO
“At the end of the day, it’s obvious Apple TV owners have specific needs that most of the population don’t seem to have (otherwise these things would be flying off the shelves).”
The biggest problem with this “review” (it’s placed under the review section!?) is that you never actually used the AppleTV. You read the blurb and explained why you didn’t want it.
I really think a review requires you to have used the product.
Sorry my mistake.. it’s under opinion…
I thought it was under “reviews” yesterday…
Still - I think a nice clear “I’ve read the blurb and it doesn’t interest me” would be useful.