Flash and Java on the iPhone - Similar Problems, Similar Fate
Even before the SDK beta was officially released, everyone concerned knew that it was going to be limited in several ways. We knew that Apple would act as the gatekeeper for applications that made it onto the iPhone and would restrict access to a lot of features, the thirty-pin dock connector being the prime target.
Once the SDK beta was released, the scope of the SDK became clearer as we saw a number of limitations accounted for in the accompanying documentation. Among other things, the SDK clearly stated that no third party applications would enjoy the freedom to run in the background and that “no interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and builtin interpreter(s).”
The SDK beta was out in the wildernesses and it was clear that Apple had no intention to bring either Java or Flash to the iPhone. Both Sun and Adobe, therefore, assumed that Apple had passed the gauntlet to them. The two companies, within a week of each other, had announced that they would soon release their respective products for the iPhone with the help of the official SDK.
When Sun announced its decision to bring Java to the iPhone, there was a smattering of mixed opinions on the web. Some people wanted it on their iPhone, others didn’t. The one thing that people were unsure about was how Sun intended to do it. Given that Apple hadn’t expressed any interest in making the device Java capable and the SDK didn’t seem to allow it, potential iPhone developers were left wondering whether Sun had come to some behind-the-scenes agreement with Apple about this issue.
It turns out, however, that they hadn’t. All they’d done was follow the live blogging of Apple’s March 6 event and, on hearing that the SDK beta was being released that day, signaled their PR department to announce the impending arrival of Java on the device. Not once did they stop to think whether it would actually be possible or not. They had no clue how they would do it and yet there was Eric Klein, vice president of Java marketing for the company, making a public announcement about it.
Right on cue, and as if to ensure that no one would miss the joke, Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen announced that they were working on a Flash media player specifically for the iPhone (full article available only to paid subscribers) and would leverage the power of the SDK to bring it to the device. Apparently, he too had overlooked the limitation of “unforeseen” applications on the iPhone when Steve Jobs was announcing it onstage. Thankfully, they’d realized that it wasn’t going to be as simple as just wishing for it and had issued a retraction by the next day, along with the assurance that they still intended to have a nice chat with ol’ Jobs about this little issue.
Seriously, how hard is it to pay attention, people?
I’m not saying that we’ll never see the iPhone take advantage of these technologies (and I’m not assuming that we will either), but if there is one thing I’m sure of, it’s that Apple isn’t going to make it easy for the likes of Adobe and Sun to have their way with the iPhone. Yes, other companies come to Adobe and license Flash from them to put it onto their devices, but none of these companies have the iPhone. The roles are reversed here, with Adobe and Sun wanting a piece of their technology on one of the most prized gadgets of the twenty-first century and Apple playing hard to get.
Ever since the device’s release, there have been disappointed murmurings among the crowd of (potential) owners about its inability to play Flash content and use Java applications and games. Analysts have been predicting doom for the phone because of this fact, stating that Jobs will need to get off his high horse and bring these technologies to the iPhone one day if he wants his darling device to sell well.
But Steve Jobs seems to know exactly what he is doing. Why go to them when you can make them come to you? Flash and Java may well make their way onto the iPhone one day, but it isn’t going to be because the iPhone needs them to survive, it will be because they need the iPhone on their list of supported devices. This is business in the technology industry, a game no one has more masterly control over than the Apple CEO. It’s going to be interesting to see how things unfurl over the next few months, as the iPhone software update 2.0 approaches.
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but if there is one thing I’m sure of, it’s that Apple isn’t going to make it easy for the likes of Adobe and Sun to have their way with the iPhone.
How exactly is putting a very useful and desirable tool on a device “having their way with it”?
Other than Jobs being his usual “my way or the highway” dick, what is there to celebrate here?
Mr. Arya, again, a very well written piece. Never mind our crusty ol’ A.M. troll never quite understanding the raison d’etre for the iPhone’s very existence. I’m sure you’re quite seasoned of him by now.
Hmmm…Flash & Java on the iPhone. Will those enhance my already extravagant user experience on my iTouch or your iPhone’s. Based on past and existing Palm, Symbian, Linux Mobile, and Windows Mobile apps, having to import Flash Mobile nor Java Micro would give any advantage to what is already offered by the SDK.
All the cool, industrial-grade mind you, animations, graphics, video, and sound tools from OSX Leopard are all there. There is no need, really, for Flash nor Java. Quicktime APIs and all those core-technologies are a blast.
Hey Bbx, have you installed and got your paws wet yet with the iSDK? Still a virgin? Then your comment above is just the usual hypocritical shill that you are. Can you provide more substance to your defense. How useful a tool is Flash or Java when not one of their apps are that useful nor even in the same league with the v.1.0 iPhone’s? YouTube and Google Map even proved this point already.
I’ve read Beebleborx’s comment thrice, and I still can’t figure out how not having the SDK would make him inelligible to comment.
...and also, I’m not quite sure what possible benefit the “industrial grade. . . animations, graphics, video and sound tools from OSX Leopard” are to a web developer who never had any access to those, as opposed to that of plug-ins which they *can* use like Java and Flash (the latter, which overtook others video plugins like Quicktime because of it being light-weight).
@simo
Bbx being a “dick” as usual said:How exactly is putting a very useful and desirable tool on a device “having their way with it”?
My swing at the bat:Hmmm…Flash & Java on the iPhone. Will those enhance my already extravagant user experience on my iTouch or your iPhone’s. Based on past and existing Palm, Symbian, Linux Mobile, and Windows Mobile apps, having to import Flash Mobile nor Java Micro would give any advantage to what is already offered by the SDK.
Also, Bbx is entitled to give more substance than: Other than Jobs being his usual “my way or the highway” dick, what is there to celebrate here? Be more creative, not just being inciteful troll as usual.
Hence, Mr. Arya’s premise here is that if Sun & Adobe is given a wide-open access to Apple’s - yes, Apple’s - iPhone and have their way to promote their clunky Flash and Java fiefdoms, that would ruin the perfect environment as it is. I wouldn’t want my iTouch nor my iPhone crashing from flaky Flash plugin or a slow-mo Java applet.
Yes, they work, but not work very well enough, thank you very much Supercoder Sterling. You should, by all people, know what I am talking about. But then, you are a self-confessed Win32 API coder so what do you have to lose when you slam Apple’s very elegant development tools and technologies like the Core sublayers? Nothing.
And *everyone* are entitled to the iSDK - even web developers. And those same web developers can sign up to develop using AJAX for Safari. Now that Safari passed latest ACID test with the highest score (75) of all leading web browsers, AJAX would be even better on the iPlatforms and iDesktops
So, my take on this <no plugin allowed> rule is a given. Plugins are great BUT carelessnes by developers can lead to security holes and memory leaks - just look at Firefox. And if you have been a longtime Mac faithful, you should remember well those system extensions and control panels in System 6,7, OS 8 & 9 that bogged down instead of enhancing the system. Those simple programs will still be allowed but not as a system plugin but like OSX, they will be widgets.
Sure, that little rule in the iSDK license is not to keep those would-be creative iPlatform developers. You are free to code and unleash those imaginative, never-before attempted coding techniques on the iPlatform.
It ain’t a bummer though. Those Flash & Java coders will just have to ride a different horse to Appleland. For their sakes, who wouldn’t.
I’ve read Beebleborx’s comment thrice, and I still can’t figure out how not having the SDK would make him inelligible to comment.
To certain people, not being a slavish, blind Apple fanboy with my tongue up Steve Job’s [insert body part of choice here] automatically makes me ineligible to comment, and a troll of course. But as Steve Jobs does not [yet] control this board, I get to criticize them - even if certain slavish blind Apple fanboy members don’t like it.
Again, how exactly is putting Flash on the iPhone an example of Adobe “having their way with it”? No one is forcing anyone to install Flash. It wouldn’t be included. It would simply be an option.
Some users just want that choice, but if Steve Jobs had his way, the word “choice” would be excised from the dictionary.
(the latter, which overtook others video plugins like Quicktime because of it being light-weight).
And because Quicktime on any platform but the Mac really sucks.
My worry is just the extremely faulty correlation. It’s obvious WHY he was criticizing you, I’m just interested in how the SDK could possibly play a role.
And because Quicktime on any platform but the Mac really sucks.
That, Simo66 (since you are a unbeknownst AM newbie), is what makes our old pal Bbx the hyper-“H” prototype of a Mac basher. He owns beautiful Mac machines in his lair yet he uses these as foundations of his ghetto-postings here and against Mac soldiers like I.
I have sworn since Robo came to Appleland and at AM saloon that I will watch everything he spits at the can to make sure what he says is fairly weighted by facts and not by his pure anger at Mac faithful. Any term he uses that deviates from this - whether Kool Aid, ‘Bois, etc. will be regarded as statements and provocations of a Mac blog war.
Back to my statement above, I sincerely said Bbx is entitled for his own view of the matter sans blog war innuendos agains the faithful. I have requested of him many times to keep his sense and show us his movie creativeness - as he claims to be. C’mon Bebox, a little more imaginations from your end - always.
As for the iSDK Simo my man, sounds like you also haven’t gotten your mittens off lately. Unwrap the damn thing and peek inside and what you’ll find is something you’ll never find in VS nor Eclipse nor Adobe developer package. Best of all, they are all FREE - as in beer my friend. Go on, have another drink on me.
-Lord Robo
Mac Defender of Truth & Reasons
And another thing Simo, S-D-K does not mean “Some Darn Kibbles-n-Kaboodles”. What part of SDK don’t you understand?
As for having “choice” of development environment for the iPlatform Bebox & Sterling, all of you dear posters haven’t given me a strong & credible evidence that having Mobile Flash & Java Micro in the iPlatform will enhance my creativity and productivity. If it’s true that the iPlatform ecosystem is a “walled garden”, I wouldn’t want it any other way for it is a nirvana.
I have used Palm & some Symbian-derivative smartphones and I will tell you, none of the apps in those mobile devices can compare to the iPlatform - the iTouch and iPhone. No, I do not want those hideous apps on my pristine Multitouch home screen.
Not knowing the real facts of the iPlatform SDK is being “blind” from the real truth. Let me know when you have played with those nice toys handed out in charity to the eager Mac community by Steve & co.
What costs thousand$$$ somewhere else, it is here for FREE! $0.00, zilch, nada. And what a bummer Steve is for getting a 30% cut off your blood-sweat-n-tears of work. How about giving M$ north of 40% for Wincrap Mobile and now - 50% for Danger’s A$$Kick.
You do have a choice Bebox, Sterling, & Simo. It’s just that the choices out there *sucks* and not better than what the iSDK and the Safari AJAX solutions can already provide.
So, what exactly is CHOICE when the other option is junk?! Read that “thrice” Simo, Bebox, & Sterling.
Now I get it, Robo. You’re assuming everyone here is looking at this through the eyes of a Mac programmer. That explains why you immediately asked Beeb if he downloaded an SDK. Why are you assuming that? I’m pretty sure Beeb was looking at this through the eyes of an iPhone user, who might want to watch a video on DailyMotion. But he can’t, because they post their videos in Flash, and they don’t have a separate deal with Apple to parallel encode their videos in QT. That user wouldn’t give a damn that the iPhone has OS X frameworks. He would just see that box with a question mark where the video should be. He won’t care that there is some SDK, and it won’t affect his life in any way. Dailymotion still won’t work.
Aside: I find it funny that you think that I’m a Windows coder. Why you assume such a thing, I’ll never know.
Beeb was looking at this through the eyes of an iPhone user, who might want to watch a video on DailyMotion -Sterling
Point taken…still not good enough reason to have Flash. YouTube was FLV-based since the beginning and switched to QT/H-264/AAC to endorse that little known fact that THE standard ISO/IEC H.264/AAC IS the best to come out of MPEG group.
Adobe is trying deliberately to establish their decrepit Flash architecture as the web standard. Like I said, they are A-OK with cutesy animations and was never intended as a app development.
For those iPhone customers that are now enjoying Multitouch apps - GoogleMap, YouTube, and more to come this June - I have great news for them. They will forget about Flash & Java not being on their iTouches & iPhones. Awesome apps and standards-based web support are here. Have you heard CSS-animations and web fonts? HTML5 support? They will all be there with FW 2.0’s Safari/AJAX kit.
He who spends $400-600 on an iPhone did not buy the rights of having the most awesome mobile OS/UI to watch Flash videos on DailyMotion. Why not just plunk $99 for a cheap Wincrap Mobile for that privilege?
I find it funny that you think that I’m a Windows coder. Why you assume such a thing, I’ll never know. -Sterling.
My bad sorry. I got you mixed up with someone from Virginia Beach (VB-somebody?).
Truth to be told, I have likened your past posts to be honest, truthful, and invigorating. But when you post half-a$$ed comments like ...and also, I’m not quite sure what possible benefit the “industrial grade. . . animations, graphics, video and sound tools from OSX Leopard” then I take that as intellectual provocations.
So, deep down my belly caverns, my apologies. I hope you continue to contribute your intelligent and witty posts. Do not patronize the Bebox. Be your own man.
I’d like to conduct a little bit of a thought experiment:
If Beeblebrox had said “I’m so glad the iPhone doesn’t have Flash or Java. Viva Jobs!” would you have responded with “Wait, you don’t have the SDK, you can’t comment!”
Of course not. Because that would make absolutely NO SENSE. Just because you don’t have the dev-tools shouldn’t stop you from requesting features. I think your problem is that wishing the iPhone had Flash is perfectly valid. It’s hard to argue that a phone with it is strictly to a phone without, so instead you clutch at straws like that truely moronic comment.